Betty Mahmoody Message Board
deepti patil posts on 10/22/2009 5:37:50 AM
I am Deepti from Maharashtra.
I have read your book" not without..."
That is so good and helps to encourage the ladies.
It tought me how to get self-freedom.
And how it is important to have pations.
Best of luck.
waiing for reply if possible.
me posts on 10/5/2009 10:30:00 AM
this is in respond to quenby wilcox,
id like just to say once again im sorry to hear your story and i am, again, in no way deffending your ex husbands behaviour, i am however deffending my country because Spain IS a liberal and modern country, its as modern and liberal as the US or any other country in Europe, and its just not fair that just because you had a bad experience in your life with a spanish man you attack Spain this way, and no, im sorry to say your far from being close to the truth, reason why i feel so offended isnt because u might be right about spain but because i just think its unbeliavable that in 2009 someone is comparing spain to iran, irak or those kind of countries in which women have no rights at all, its just silly to be comparing a country that belongs to the EU to those countries. they have absolutely nothing in common, your comment is so long i didnt even bother to read all of it, just the first couple of sentences, and i had enough. again, if u had so many problems u should have asked for help before getting to that situation, u should have left earlier and not waited for so long, u could have taken your children and left him, go to the US embassy or wherever you could get help and just leave. for gods sake its spain we are talking about not afghanistan! also my mom is a foreign woman, shes lived in spain for 30 years now and she absolutely loves it, this is just so ridiculous, maybe u just picked the wrong man but thats got nothing at all to do with the spanish people or culture. i am not respoinding to any more of this cause its just a waste of my time, u obviously had bad experiences in spain and with some spanish people but please do not post those kind of comments on the internet cause its just sooo ridiculous, remember there are good and bad people everywhere and not all spanish people are like your ex husband or his family at all, was only bad luck your husband wasnt a nice person but there are loads of stupid american men too! good luck.
tippi1 posts on 10/1/2009 12:49:01 PM
Ms. Wilcox this is my opinion as I see it take it or leave it. I googled you as you requested, and quite frankly all I see is a very bitter and angry woman. Who only wants to portray herself as a victim. Everyone seems to be "against" you Ms. Wilcox. Your husband, the laywers, the police, friends, family, and according to you many more. I was raised with the thought that everyone else can't be the problem all the time. I have seen you refer to two other Domestic Violence cases. Domestic Violence is every where. It happens to everyone. Not just Spanish women, and that is the only "domestic violence" you seem concerned with. Yes, there are certain nationalities that it is more prevailent in, but anyone can be a victim. You also compare your story to Betty's story, and quite frankly the two cannot be compared. Yes, Betty was beaten. But, that was not her only struggle. She was deceived, tricked, coerced, and flat out lied to, and truthfully kidnapped. From what I can see of your biography you went to Spain of your own free will. Yes, you were beaten but that is where the comparison ends. Betty had to try and get back to her own country all the while trying to smuggle her daughter out as well. In reading Betty's book it never seemed to me that Betty thought anyone was "against" her personally. She seemed to view it as the difference in cultures. Honestly, if I was Spanish I would be offended by the way that you speak about Spanish people and men in general. Truthfully, Ms. Wilcox if you don't like the judgements people make then you shouldn't put your "stuff" out there for all to see, read, and judge. Also, I think most people come here to post an opinion, not to argue, or have to explain their opinions over and over again.
Quenby Wilcox posts on 9/30/2009 6:23:48 PM
This is in response to "me." You are so right that what happened to me could happen in any country and is. My case has very many parallels to Maria Jose Carrascosa's custody battle in New Jersey and written about by Reyes Monforte in Amor Cruel.
As to Spain being a modern liberal country. Compared to which country? I have lived amongst Spaniards for 20 years, and I always hear them telling me "Que moderno somos," but fail to hear a lot of "modern" dialogue in their rhetoric. One expression that has always offended me the most was "Callate Tonta!"
As to offending you, I am sorry, but I ask you to reflect as to why you might be so offended? Do I hit too close to the truth? Do you realize that foreign women in Spain in domestic abuse case have 1/4 of 1% chance of survival, with Spanish women at 28%, as reported by Amnesty International. And, the difference in these rates are largely due to xenophobia and discrimination within the Spanish judicial system.
As to why I stayed in my marriage for so long. I will answer. I stayed as I thought it best for my children, also he had total financial control.I was even working on a project designed not only to provide financial independence for myself, but also other expatriated women around the world and when it started getting off the ground is when he totally flipped out and threatened to kill me if I did not stop my work. That was over two years ago and the fact that the Spanish judicial system has embezzled all of my assets almost $1 million, the whole project has been put on hold. True liberation of women around the world will come thru financial independence, not a bunch of laws and declarations that none of the courts are respecting.
I suffered psychological abuse as a child and as an adult and one of the greatest allies of abusors is the attitude that victims somehow deserve the abuse, as well as social attitudes that unless you are physically beaten to a pulp then no abuse has occured. Ask any victim the physical pain and scars heal much faster than the emotional ones. Cont….
And, in answer to why I never seeked help before it got to the point it did. My answer is that I did seek help. For my entire marriage I seeked help from a myriad of useless marriage counselors, friends, family and then useless domestic violence centers in Spain. Once again read reports by Amnesty International if you really wish to find out how ineffective the Spanish govts. to domestic violence(and is reflective of all govts. responses to varying degrees)as well as social norms which encourage and perpetuate domestic abuse.
Believe me I have nothing against Spain or Spaniards, but much of the corruption in Spain (as is the case around the world) is due to citizens turning a blind eye to what is happening in their own country. I am sure you are aware of the drug/human trafficking/protection scandal in Coslada and how the police and judicial system are implicated. Well the same thing is happening in Torrejon de Ardoz and Mostoles (where my case is taking place.) Are you familiar with the widely publicized case of Mari-Luz in Mostoles, the little girl whose ex-military father was given custody of her after serving a sentence for sexually abusing his eldest daughter who eventually committed suicide by throwing herself in front of a metro after years of abuse.
As I said before, this is not just happening in Spain, it is going on everywhere and there is a direct correlation to corruption in general and domestic abuse victims being revictimized by the judicial system in cases of domestic abuse. Many are ending up in prisons, psychiatric wards, or dead. Cases abound around the world!
I am one of the lucky ones. I was not killed, or incarcerated and my abuse was "light" compared to many out there. Also, I am not someone who is intimidated or pushed around, but that still does not mean that I have not experience excruciating pain (being seperated from my children the worst.)
As I told my children the last time I saw them, if I was returning to the States it was to make sure that what had happened to us does not happen to others. And, as my sister told me several years ago "Maybe this is all for a reason." And, that is what I hang onto, that and the hope to be re-united with my children when they are adults.
To this day lawyers and the judge in my case have done everything to destroy me financially, thinking that they can destroy me and shut me up in the process, but as you might appreciate I do not "callarme" that easily, particularly if you "screw" with my kids, or any kids for that matter.
And, if what I have said has offended you again, I am sorry. But, I ask you to ask you why you are so offended? Normally what bothers and offends us the most are those things we fear may be true.
Noor Fatima posts on 9/29/2009 5:47:46 PM
I just want you all to know that I am American born and that my marriage is nothng like this .. I have been to my husbands countrty and nothing ever happened to me and my kids .. we came and wwent as we wanted .. i do not think ALL men are like this jussst some ..
Marsha posts on 9/25/2009 10:28:53 PM
I have read with interest the many post who think that Ms. Mahmoody exaggerated her claims in "Not Without My Daughter" I dated a lovely Muslim man for a while and while I would never be able to abandon my Christian beliefs for Islam he peaked my interest in the teachings of the Koran. The teachings are actually quite beautiful with many references to extreme respect for women. But like all religions, including Christianity, it's teachings can be and are interpreted in any manner any radical group chooses to. Certainly honor killings of women are not ordained by the Koran but it is well documented that they do still occur. In Saudi Arabia women can't drive cars are owned by their husbands and if their husbands die they become the property of their oldest sons. For the most part they cannot travel out of their homes unless accompanied by a male relative. Yes, this is their culture and I wouldn't choose it, but I don't think we can deny that it happens or that Ms. Mahmoody made up her experiences for profit. I think she wrote it like she saw her experiences.
Sheila Hopkins posts on 9/25/2009 8:40:18 PM
I watched this movie in the early 90s and am again watching in 2009...this movie was emotionally moving then and still is. I saw things that I missed before. Not only was Betty a strong woman, but a woman of faith. She prayed to God everyday to deliver her from Iran and God came through. She went through a lot but her strong character and persistence in not leaving her daughter was ADMIRABLE. Why is some people don't want to believe her own story? I can only guess. This is her story...let her tell it.
me posts on 9/25/2009 9:14:14 AM
i would like to answer to Quenby Wilcoxs comment. i am spanish and feel extremely offended by the way she describes Spain. its laws and rights have absolutely nothing to do with muslims countries. it is a completely free country and it was only bad luck she had that experience with a spanish man. there are bad people all over the world ( im sure in america too) and it could have happened anywhwere. i am not excusing her ex husbands behaviour at all as im a woman and a mother too and dont know what would i do if my daughter was taken from me. but i dont think its fair she describes spain the way she does as its completely untrue, again this could have happened to her in the US too with an american man. maybe she shouldnt have stayed in such a unhappy marriage for so long and made the decision to divorce if she was really that unhappy earlier in her life? spain is a free modern country and she could have asked for help before getting to that situation.
Also say that i absolutely love betty mahmoddy and think what she did is absolutely amazing, and she really is an extraordinary woman. ive read her book and seen the film. shes clearly an example for all the women all over the world. god bless you betty!
Marilyn L. posts on 9/23/2009 9:02:00 AM
Altho' my problems are basically over except for dealing with 'damaged' grown children and I've just completed a very successful career as a speech pathologist and am at the point I am 'happy' (well, sort of) that I married my Arab husband because my life became very interesting with the travel and the people I met along the way. Really bad stuff and those memories can fade with time, but the vividness of them remains when conjured up. Anyway, if there is a website where we can talk to other women who are in or have experienced what we have so that we can communicate directly with these women or even get together in an organized fashion in cities or towns, that would be nice. I think those of us who have 'made it through the mess' with some measure of success would like to support the women who are there now. My children were yanked away from me, yes, but the affluence of their father gave them access to private schooling, upper class neighborhoods, associating with very educated people, and without his help (which would not have existed) my children would have ended up trailer trash as I had no money.
Janet posts on 9/20/2009 7:16:08 PM
I read both of Betty Mahmoody's books. She never once generalize the Itanians, Iraqis or any other people.
Her husband was verbally, emotionally and physically abusive. My father was verbally and emotionally abusive. He didn't dare be physically (or sexually) abusive as some men are because my Mom, small as she was compared to him (5'6" to 6'3") would have let him have it. I still remember her backing him into a corner with a chair and hitting HIM when he hit one of us.
He was rude and insulting and constantly making fun of my mother's faith or giving us a hard time.
After reading Betty's books I wonder if my father might not have done the same thing had he been a foreign national.
He was lazy and he lost a perfectly good job. I don't know the circumstances of that situation but I know that he wouldn't tend to food on the stove when Mom was out shoveling snow nor did he appreciate her. I have read some of her writings and gave them to a friend from her church. I don't ever want my sister to see them - she pretty much hated dad as it was.
My mother didn't marry a foreign national but she married a man who was spoiled rotten, whose mother didn't want him to get married (in fact he did exactly TWO things against her wishes his whole life - he went into the service and he got married). My mom was raised in Tulsa and Oklahoma City. My father was born and raised in Massachusetts. So domineering was he, and his mother, that Mom only got home to see her parents ONCE after she married and she wasn't allowed to take my oldest brother with her.
When my grandfather died, in our home when I was not quite eight, the funeral director had to intercede so that Grandpa could be buried in dad's family plot. He was afraid it was an insult to his family. My grandmother would have been out on the street if he'd had his way.
While Gram and I didn't always get along I can't imagine a man telling his mother-in-law (who was a sickly woman) that she couldn't live with us but that's what he would have done.
I find Betty's experiences to be somewhat parallel to my family's. Mahtob had a choice and she chose NOT to be reunited with her father ever.
Betty, like my Mom tried to do, raised her daughter to view people as individuals and not as generalities according to their skin color or religion.
My family is now a "blended" family as my brother married a Chinese girl (a Christian) and my niece (who is half Chinese) married a guy who is Greek, Hungarian and Cherokee - that he knows of. They have three beautiful children.
Hats off to Betty for having the courage to stay until she could bring her daughter with her and for surviving all those years. Also for organizine the One World For Children (hope I got that right) organization.
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